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Bitcoin Debate: Erik Voorhees vs. Peter Schiff (livestream)

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Tonight, a debate series in NY (that I cofounded with Gene Epstein) called the Soho Forum hosted an awesome bitcoin debate with Peter Schiff vs. Erik Voorhees. Resolution: “Bitcoin, or a similar form of cryptocurrency, will eventually replace governments' fiat money as the preferred medium of exchange." Debate was moderated by Soho Forum director Gene Epstein, and questions were taken live from audience members and from the live stream viewers. For more interesting debates, visit thesohoforum.org If you liked this video, please subscribe! Patreon.com/NaomiBrockwell HUGE thank you to all my AMAZING Patreon supporters! And a GIANT thank you to my sponsors Nelly's Organics (https://nellysorganics.com/), Decentranet (https://decentranet.com/), and HardFork Entertainment (http://hardforkentertainment.io/) Thanks for watching!! Leave a comment below and come say hi to me on: Twitter (@Skycorridors) Steemit (https://steemit.com/@skycorridors) Bitchute (https://www.bitchute.com/naomibrockwelltv/) dTube (https://d.tube/c/skycorridors) Podcast: https://soundcloud.com/naomibrockwell/tracks https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/bitcoin-blockchain-and-the-technologies-of-our-future/id1332680060?mt=2 BTC: 33a8WEWYwVvvVKmohpXJVVWznYVTNrESkc BCH: 1Na4u2akeCNqGoShcUscBEb3EFkt6firGb Dash: XswT7Dn6pLeu3RYQMiJXPXZh4oVgNr5cJ3 LTC: MStHu3bKxtsyDy6Cnex7sExW7Sntye3Hod ZEC: t1U1BWDM5WpRK8VNR1a5MjnRLyGeaV9ocGZ Doge: DUS4TRXCErchmx4W7PujR9oCh3hfYvNY1F ETH: 0xaE0E925159ef42d3B4A9BCaa2808f1C456A7be6b
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Text Comments (289)
John Dozier (3 months ago)
I think Eric floored him.
Naomi Brockwell (3 months ago)
totally agree
john (4 months ago)
Peter won this debate. He used clear logic within a historical context. He cleaned Erik's clock.
Naomi Brockwell (3 months ago)
I disagree, but I'm glad you watched and enjoyed the debate!
john (4 months ago)
For those interested in Bitcoin I have another investment: Tulips. Those interested in Bitcoin have always made the point that the dollar is a fiat currency-- a currency with no intrinsic value. Bitcoin itself has no intrinsic value and its value is related to, and tied, to the dollar. So we have a double fiat "currency" if you will. At least tulips have some intrinsic value. Bitcoin is just a speculative commodity. That's all. It works on the principle of the bigger fool.
Naomi Brockwell (3 months ago)
As Voorhess mentioned in the debate, the definition of fiat is money by decree, not whether something has "intrinsic value".
Andy Raman (4 months ago)
For people who want to see it again in good quality... https://youtu.be/q8R71WGO3qU
SpaceWalkTraveller (4 months ago)
This was a good civil debate, hat off to Erik for being civilized unlike the very immature Max Keiser who debated Peter a few months ago. Banks create money out of debt, more than 95% of the money is created by private banks. He who creates the money controls the world. If you think banks are going to sit back and let bitcoin take their money creation process away then you are living in dream world. The banks will just lobby the government to ban cryptocurrencies, saying things like it's the terrorist, drug dealers or peodophiles using it. There is no conspiracy on how money is created just type into google "how money is created Bank of England" and they'll explain it to you, even the Bundesbank admits in the money creation theory or go over to positive money and they have some good information on how money is created. The Swiss just had a referendum on taking the creation of money off the private banks and giving the power to created money back to the government. The Swiss being a conservative lot voted in favour of the banks creating money. I believe Erik in what he says about Fiat money but the reality of life is once cryptocurrencies hit into the bottom line of the banks then it'll be banned . If you understand how central banks control the banks and money supply then you'll know Bitcoin is nothing but a pipe dream that is going to keep loosing value.
Naomi Brockwell (4 months ago)
The government may well try to ban it. But they can't stop people using it, and there are always people who want to use a currency that can't be controlled. So bitcoin may not reach mainstream adoption if that happens, but it will never go away, and is very much a reality rather than a pipe dream. I also enjoyed their civilized discussion! Both gave a great presentation :)
Tip-Top Investments (4 months ago)
Everyone can debate for or against BTC but all we can do is wait and see how it all plays out that's it if you believe in BTC then invest what you can afford to lose if you don't believe then stay away the way I see it is gold and currency have been around for a long time and people have been able to see them work and interact with the economy so let's also give BTC the same level playing field that how we will see which is better for use.
Naomi Brockwell (4 months ago)
I agree, only time will tell!
Martin Brock (4 months ago)
They're both wrong. In a free monetary system (no central bank, no statutory legal tender, no state privileging one medium of exchange over another in any way), most money is still circulating credit, because free property holders can and will extend credit to exchange their property over time (as in home mortgages), and creditors can and will use promissory notes as money during these transactions, and the volume of these notes will exceed the volume of base money (the standard of value in credit contracts). Neither gold (which has been a statutory legal tender [and thus fiat money] historically) nor Bitcoin is an ideal standard of value, and Bitcoin is completely unfit for this purpose, because its extremely inelastic supply makes its value highly volatile. This volatility is a consequence of the inelastic supply, so it will always exist. There is no equilibrium in which Bitcoin's value stabilizes as it becomes a widely accepted medium of exchange, so it will never be a standard of value in long term credit contracts, and it will never be a widely accepted medium of exchange for this reason. A cryptocurrency could become a widely used medium of exchange and a standard of value (and the promissory notes could themselves be digital and secured cryptographically), but if "similar to Bitcoin" implies a fixed (or ultimately fixed) supply, the resolution is nonetheless false.
kaos092 (4 months ago)
1) Bitcoins volatility will decrease drastically as the marketcap increases 2) Credit and debt should be eliminated anyway and have no place in economies of the future.
Jason Parthum (4 months ago)
A price does *not* require a 'standard of value'. Your own comments even refute this claim. How could people possibly _choose_ a standard of value based on prices if prices already _require_ a standard of value?? Prices are not autonomous beings that exist outside of people's choices, they are merely the results of people's choices. And yes, to _make_ a price 'stable' when people in the free market choose otherwise requires 'fixing' (manipulating) that price _against_ the will of those people. If 'demand for the standard itself changes', then people _have_ settled on a standard, by definition (that's what the term 'standard' means). _All_ prices rising and falling _together_ would be impossible to perceive. The price _every_ person pays would remain exactly the _same_ since the price of whatever they're paying with would have risen or fallen simultaneously with whatever they're buying. This would be the absolute purest example of price *stability* . Regardless of how preferable price stability may seem, it absolutely does not, has never, and cannot exist in any absolute sense. Relative price stability among certain goods at certain times certainly occurs but never for very long among the same goods. Of course people would rather their calculations remain consistent, but just because you see very similar prices advertised at the grocery store week after week doesn't mean the costs to produce, process, transport, store, and advertise those goods aren't fluctuating wildly. All of the parties involved aggregate their prices to some extent. They aren't inherently 'stable' prices, they are averaged with prices for others goods, services, and time-frames in order to _create_ more simplified and predictable financing and accounting procedures -- and they all do the same thing regardless of which currency their calculating with. The central planners who are constantly 'fixing' (manipulating) the number of currency units only make this task _more_ difficult. When the supply of currency changes, the price of the currency also changes (simple laws of supply and demand), so now all of these parties have to make _twice_ as many adjustments (unless the rise/fall in price of the currency and the rise/fall of their particular costs just happen to inversely coincide, which is what I suspect you believe could magically happen with _every_ party simultaneously). We expect the demand for money to be responded to with a supply of _goods and services_ . If the demand for money could just be met with 'magic' (simply imagining more into existence), then why would anybody ever produce anything to _exchange_ for money? And if nobody will exchange anything for money, what purpose does money then serve? If/when any crypto ever gains enough market share, the credit market absolutely _will_ respond to the demand (they won't have a choice if they want to remain profitable). And as market share grows, suppliers _will_ aggregate their costs to simplify financing and accounting and their prices _will_ appear more stable relative to that crypto.
Martin Brock (4 months ago)
A price is the exchange ratio between one item and a standard of value, not just any other item. In a free monetary system, where a commodity plays this role because people voluntarily agree upon it, prices are stable, because people want stable prices and therefore choose a standard with stable prices. Again, "stable" is not equivalent to "fixed", but if all prices vary wildly because demand for the standard itself changes, people don't settle on this standard. "Price instability" means that all prices rise and fall together (inflation or deflation). If the price of dairy milk falls while the price of almond milk rises, because of changes in the relative demand for these goods, that's not price instability. Again, stable prices for real estate and similar goods make long term credit contracts feasible. We expect the price of a house to change with demand for the house, but we don't expect the price to fluctuate wildly when demand for money itself changes, regardless of demand for the house. We expect the supply of money to respond to demand for money, so that changing demand for money is not reflected in the price of every other good. When prices generally rise together or fall together, these inflationary or deflationary changes distort other prices signals. I trust a credit market to choose a standard of value for extending credit, and I don't expect creditors to accept, in exchange for a good that few people can buy except on credit, the promise of so many units of a commodity per month over many years when price of the commodity itself fluctuates wildly, like quadrupling in six months and then falling by 75% in the following six months. Creditors with a choice do not extend credit on these terms.
Jason Parthum (4 months ago)
It's relevant because a price is nothing more than the exchange ratio between _one_ item and _another_ item. If you want 'the price' of a currency to be 'stable' (have a 'fixed' exchange rate), you'd need to cite *which* other item you want it to be stable with. And then what does that accomplish? ...And who do you trust to 'stabilize' (artificially manipulate) that currency price?
Martin Brock (4 months ago)
The "market value" of a good is an equilibrium between the subjective preferences of buyers and sellers (bids and asks). A single good can have different values in different markets, but in a single market, the "market value" of a good, at an instant, is meaningful, because every buyer wants the lowest ask, and every seller wants the highest bid. There is no "target value". There is only this equilibrium at an instant. None of this is relevant to my point, which involves the necessity of stable prices in a currency for long term credit contracts. Bitcoin prices are incredibly unstable and always will be. Prices in one currency can be more stable then prices in another currency. Central planning has nothing to do with it. "Stable" is not equivalent to "targeted" or "planned" or "fixed".
joe justesen (5 months ago)
I'm using this topic for my final essay in my critical thinking class. Mr Voorhees's argument is very well structured and easy to follow. He was by far the more articulate speaker, however it looks as though the crowd/venue is heavily biased against Mr Schiff.
joe justesen (4 months ago)
Thanks for your reply! I've flushed out the position I will take for this paper. My position is that states will attempt to co opt the idea of cryptocurrency in order to facilitate a move to a cashless society. As a side note tinfoil is a regular part of my wardrobe.
Naomi Brockwell (4 months ago)
The crowd was heavily biased: It's a libertarian debate series and usually attracts regulars every month, with most libertarians being very pro bitcoin. That being said, I agree that Voorhees was incredibly articulate and I think had the best argument
Jeff (5 months ago)
golds value as a useful metal is extremely low compared to others
Roy Wessbecher (5 months ago)
I get the feeling Peter has secretly acquired some BTC' - just as Erik probably has a nice stash of Gold. Both still use fiat, right? Good debate anyway, but I'd like to see a pro-fiat guy too - say, Krugman, with his "“Fiat money, if you like, is backed by men with guns.” (Quite an honest answer I think!)
Florence Manguiat (5 months ago)
This was fantastic! Super informative, and I researched all the events and topics discussed by both Erik and Peter. I hope more people actually watch the entire thing because it was quite captivating! Please post more videos like this!
Naomi Brockwell (5 months ago)
Thanks so much for watching! I'll definitely be posting more videos like this :)
joe (5 months ago)
Schiff says..look at MySpace..what are the odds Bitcoin is the greatest cryptocurrency that will ever be invented? Seems like a valid point.
James Yonan (5 months ago)
I didn't like the way the crowd was already predisposed to support Erik... 😕
Naomi Brockwell (5 months ago)
It's a libertarian debate series, what did you expect?
Kestutis Valancius (5 months ago)
Amazing. Erik Voorhees at the 1:03:28 admitted that if something better would come up than BTC he would be convinced to walk away from BTC. So, it means, he does not trust BTC in the long term. that means you cant save in BTC for the long term, for e.g. 5-10. It means BTC is not money for the simple reason- YOU CAN'T DO THE SAVING IN BTC! no saving=no capital investment= no capitalism. SUCKS!
MrCool (5 months ago)
so many idiots in that room, they are biased for bitcoins and are not thinking critically about it. Peter Schiff is speaking to a bunch of naifs
Robert Klein (5 months ago)
Erik is right. Schiff is right. Great debate
Naomi Brockwell (5 months ago)
Thanks for watching!!!
racerxtoday (5 months ago)
We just need Andreas Antonopolous to debate Peter Schiff to get a decisive win and he's good enough to wake Peter the hell up. Eric's voice is not forceful enough and he's a bit too polite. That said he did a good job.
Naomi Brockwell (5 months ago)
Oh I thought he was great :) I'm not sure there's any turning Peter, but we'll see! Both did a good job :)
Kevin Lisi (5 months ago)
All you fools need to understand that yes bitcoin is superior to the dollar in the sense that it is decentralized but anyone can replicate the exact format that bitcoin uses. In fact they have thousands of times already. Let me see someone replicate a bar of gold. I'll wait. Bitcoin is not the future. Money needs to be physical, somewhat finite, and impossible to replicate. Bitcoin fails on 2 of those vital points. I understand that many of you are invested and maybe short term bitcoin will have success but if we are looking for something that can't be created by anyone than bitcoin is not your option. In before someone who knows nothing about networks tries to tell me about "network effects" that bitcoin has. LOL please bitcoiners many of you were dedicated libertarians that lost your way. Re read this post for your own sake a few times.
kaos092 (4 months ago)
Kevin Lisi What a completely moronic comment. Please let me know how to replicate bitcoin so I can make an easy few million. Perhaps you should learn how it works before you come to such ignorant conclusions.
George Maximus (5 months ago)
Bitcoin is just too complicated for the average non tech savvy people to understand. If you have a mass population who really does not understand it then it is hard for this to be money. I cannot put my money into something I cannot touch or see. Bitcoin is more faith based than fiat or metals. I have to trust people who I never met and hope this will work out. Too much volatility to be money. Money needs to simple and easy to use that everyone agrees on it. If there are so much disagreement on this with ups and downs in prices so fast, this isn’t going to work. How will you convince governments to use bitcoin as money. At least most governments still trust gold and own gold. we still have to pay taxes. If we start paying taxes in bitcoin then there is a turning point for this cryto otherwise this is all very much speculative
George Maximus (4 months ago)
When everyone withdraw money from the banks, it means they have lost faith in the banks. Banks will collapse. Same if everyone loses faith in bitcoin and decide to sell everything.
kaos092 (4 months ago)
George Maximus That's because the marketcap is still tiny. There has been hyperinflation multiple times in multiple countries throughtout FIAT currencies history. Millions if not billions of people have lost there entire worth holding a currency they were told is safe. Bitcoin costs so much because they are finite. You can buy a few dollars worth to hold as it's divisible to 8 decimal points. You think you own the money you put in the bank? I wonder what would happen if everyone tried to withdraw their money at the same time?
George Maximus (4 months ago)
kaos092 People will start using bitcoin when it doesn’t drop 50% in a matter of days or weeks or even months. Can you imagine your hard earned money losing that much value after someone telling them its more convenient to use this new money instead of fiat? Sure there us inflation, but at least they are slow and steady. Huge Price swings like this just isn’t where regular folks can stomach. Bitcoin is one of the most expensive commodity you can imagine with $7000 to buy one and I don’t even know if I really own it.
kaos092 (4 months ago)
George Maximus and does the average person understand how interest rates work, or what QE is? Does the average person understand how the linux operating system works? No but they use it everyday. Eventually we'll be at the point where the average person won't need to understand, they'll use it because it's better and most importantly it's more convenient.
George Maximus (4 months ago)
kaos092 The problem is trust. Bitcoin is a new currency idea trying to convince the masses to start using it as currency. It is hard to understand for normal average individuals. Not everyone invests in stocks but everyone uses money for daily activity. Unless everybody agrees bitcoin is the new money and we all trust bitcoin as money then bitcoin has a future. Especially if bitcoin wants to be a world currency which is a big huge deal that requires lots of trust. We need some kind of Guarantee that its value isn’t going to fluctuate so violently, it feels like you have everything to gain but also everything to lose as well in bitcoin. These are healthy debates and with lots of great points and meetings of great minds.
mikael englund (5 months ago)
Omg so stupid, he actually said that the fact that bitcoin is really hard to mine is bad, he said it would be better if it cost noting to produce. Omg how stupid can he get, if it cost nothing to mine how would you protect against inflation. The fact that bitcoin gets harder and more costly to mine as the value increases is the best way to protect against inflation. Bitcoin is valuable cause it cost resources to produce. Of course in the future it would be far better if the process to mine bitcoin included calculating stuff that helped researchers to invent cures etc. But thats something to think of later.
saad awan (5 months ago)
cryptos are not safe from those holding the power of communication networks that give life to cryptos via.......world wide web and communication networks and satellites and the cables going under the oceans.... All this centralized infrastructure of communication does not belong to Mr. Satoshi but to the same oppressive cabal that has been backing fiat monetary system.....
Josie Wulf (5 months ago)
just bought $50 worth of bitcoin
Naomi Brockwell (5 months ago)
Agreed, Mikael
mikael englund (5 months ago)
Consider that it is possible that 50 could be worth 50k or 5 milion some day, i say its a small risk for a big possible reward. If he bought something for 50 bucks he would have a nice dinner or maybe a fun evening and thats it. I agree taking out loans to buy would be stupid, but investing what you can let ride for long time is really wise.
Josie Wulf (5 months ago)
a w Whatever you say
alex 45 (5 months ago)
Josie Wulf that's just more air into the bubble
Ken Sato (5 months ago)
Soho Forum is planning to hold Soho Crypto Mining Forum as a fundraising event in Sep. If you are interested in, please sign up our email list. https://www.cryptominingforum.org/
Naomi Brockwell (5 months ago)
Can't wait!
Future Gravy (5 months ago)
Thank you for posting, but the sound is so incredibly horrible.
Adrian Segura (5 months ago)
gold wasnt confiscated in the 1930s . see this erik guy doesnt even know his history . and gov will crack down on cryptos . so dont get ahead of the game . and then what will you say that cryptos will never work either ??? i just cant take this erik guy seriously his debating points arent even logical or right .
kaos092 (4 months ago)
Going through these comments and you're about 40% of the comment section with erratic posts and horrible grammar. If you dislike cryptocurrency and think it will go to zero put your money where your mouth is open up a short position and shut up.
Adrian Segura (5 months ago)
that it was never confiscated . and never will be . the government just made it seem like the confiscated it but thats just too scare you so you wont buy any gold or silver . also alot of citizens didnt give any gold up because it wasnt a full blown out confiscation .
Jake Leggett (5 months ago)
It may not have been confiscated. I don't know. But the government was definitely extorting the citizens to turn in their gold for bank notes. I am not trying to attack you, I was just pointing out what Erik was referring to. 14 min is a long video to sift through without knowing what your point was you're trying to make.
Adrian Segura (5 months ago)
but i know ford legalized private ownership of gold . it was never consider illegal . its all manipulated spin off gov bull shit .
Adrian Segura (5 months ago)
Jake: for the people that dont know what happened in 1930 . it wasnt confiscated like people though it happened . and i know most retards dont even have a time span of 14 min to learn valuable stuff . ignorance is high in the bitcoin community
Shardan R. (5 months ago)
I wish Erik would’ve said Bitcoin is “backed” by blockchain technology. Blockchain is the intrinsic value of crypto currencies.
David Parrish (5 months ago)
E-gold is why Bitcoin must exist. E-gold tried to create digital gold and was shutdown by the US.
Naomi Brockwell (5 months ago)
Exactly
Jon Sesso (5 months ago)
I can audibly hear and understand 20% of what the moderator is saying. 85% of Voorhees and 95% of Schiff.
Crypto Chat (5 months ago)
Schiff is right on so many levels, but then again so is Erik. I am on the side of BTC succeeding but I agree with Schiff on many things that I cant logically deny.
nilskp (5 months ago)
Schiff doesn't understand that Bitcoin is software. It is constantly being improved. Bitcoin (BTC) has the mindshare and the best scientists and developers. This is where things happen (slowly, but safely) and will continue to happen. It's the safest store of value the world has ever seen.
LOL
nilskp (5 months ago)
Schiff won't know what hit him.
alex 45 (5 months ago)
nilskp - give it time. When the dollar collapses, I'm willing to bet gold will be the safe haven play. Bitcoin hasn't shown it can present that role.
nilskp (5 months ago)
a w and yet, gold is at its 2018 low.
alex 45 (5 months ago)
You say this, just as governments around the globe have been purchasing tons and tons of gold.
maylIrm (5 months ago)
What a weak, pathetic closing statement from Schiff. You can tell he had nothing good or original left and was broken down by the ending statement portion going out in a cliche whimper of non sequiturs.
Capt Pontoon (5 months ago)
Why does Peter keep adding gold into his weak argument. Were comparing bitcoin to fiat which bitcoin wins every time. We are not debating bitcoin vs. Gold. If the dollar was still backed by gold we wouldnt be 100 trillion in debt.
Adrian Segura (5 months ago)
then why have peter ?? obviously peter know fiat is no good . this videos was about "gold vs bitcoin " blockchain will be useful but not these cryptos .
Naomi Brockwell (5 months ago)
The debate was about govt fiat vs. bitcoin, the exact resolution: “Bitcoin, or a similar form of cryptocurrency, will eventually replace governments' fiat money as the preferred medium of exchange."
alex 45 (5 months ago)
Capt Pontoon why is Bitcoin any different from FIAT. a brand new crypto currency can be made out of thin air that can be deemed better than the previous one.
Adrian Segura (5 months ago)
haha Are you fucking kidding haha . this debate is about gold vs bitcoin . smh we all know fiat sucks . dont be so dumb . and actually no fiat and bitcoin are the same shit !!! just one is digital
BullShark (5 months ago)
Because he's a Gold salesman
Patrick Bateman (5 months ago)
Bitcoin is the one true currency.
Martin Brock (4 months ago)
Like myspace was the one, true social media ... until it wasn't, and arc was the one, true compression software ... until it wasn't, and what was good for General Motors was good for America ... until it wasn't.
Adrian Segura (5 months ago)
DAithi : learn some shit :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkYH_6Ln5Q8
Adrian Segura (5 months ago)
yea yea. thats what everyone says when they got nothing else to say haha . highly suggest you educate yourself on something you got no clue wher its head too . #1241# fucking retards. you guys are going to be considered money launders
Daithi Deasun (5 months ago)
Adrian Segura go educate yourself on the subject. You cant argue with a fool. You're a retard that cant even spell.
Adrian Segura (5 months ago)
you still gotta transact those bitcoin into fiat idiot. idc about a micro chip . and so what if you can use it around the world . they just consider you a money launder . senate bill 1241 . good luck money launder. and that micro/wallet can still get hacked .smh
Bravo Charlie (5 months ago)
I love both of these guys. In the end we're all on the same team.
Naomi Brockwell (5 months ago)
They both did a great job, super awesome they came out to debate!
yhmoy yewhon (5 months ago)
the utility of bitcoin is i could use it to fund any crypto project anywhere in the world as much as i want.. you cant do that with gold.. dont be stupid peter, you been stupid for many years already
saad awan (5 months ago)
It is mind-control to rob people of their precious metals and to eventually draw them into crypto whereby they can be booted out like a virus from virtual paying network by money-masters(now crypto-moneymasters)...and if the digital currency is acceptable the true libertarian shall even not be able to get his coffee from centralized-controlled money from which he is banned to log-on...who controls internet................who????????? blockchain or governments????????????????
Sterling Peyton (5 months ago)
Peter does not think that anyone can exchange crypto for goods or services without one party cashing out to government Fiat... I think that is the hole in his logic.
Sterling Peyton (5 months ago)
People do not have to sell precious metals to get into crypto. You can plant a garden and let it grow while you go to work and earn fiat to pay bills. I say we spread out our risk and get into a bunch of things. I should learn how to download bitcoin transactions via satellite (which is possible now without the internet). I'd like crypto to go 6x so that I can get 6x worth of precious metals. There is more holding metals down than crypto. They are just resting before the next run. We will need to leverage crypto to get metals to move,
saad awan (5 months ago)
It is mind-control to rob people of their precious metals and to eventually draw them into crypto whereby they can be booted out like a virus from virtual paying network by money-masters(now crypto-moneymasters)...and if the digital currency reaches complete penetration the true libertarian shall even not be able to get his coffee from centralized-controlled money from which he is banned to log-on...who controls internet................who????????? blockchain or governments????????????????
Jason Parthum (5 months ago)
The Theory of Objective Value (a.k.a. 'intrinsic value') was thoroughly debunked over 100 years ago. This fundamentally flawed myth also served as the entire premise for the Labor Theory of Value (a.k.a. Marxism), which has been empirically proven wrong over the last 100 years. Peter seems to be nuancing his previous 'intrinsic value' argument now by instead citing 'utility' (direct-use) value, but this also contradicts economic principles. Monetary value is precisely the _opposite_ of direct-use value. Monetary value is placed _solely_ on the expectation of future _exchange_ , not consumption. This is obvious even with gold. The typical holder of gold has no direct-use for that gold. The ONLY reason they buy it is to _sell_ it later.
Jason Parthum (5 months ago)
You just thought you were being sneaky! But you irrefutably exposed yourself: "remember again the key to all communication networks is with them [Central Banks]" You're OBVIOUSLY just their PUPPET since you're using 'their' communications network!!! :-O
saad awan (5 months ago)
The gold despite all ups and down is serving to protect value since I was born...The money-master must be hating it as he could not rob gold like fiat and cannot catch most of the population holding on to it all across the world.....guess what he comes up with cryptos to get all the fish in the same NET......Central Banks shall succeed with cryptos where they failed with gold.....remember again the key to all communication networks is with them...............
Jason Parthum (5 months ago)
If the capability of humans to buy gold is derived from Central Banks, then obviously it's the Central Banks that have 'intrinsic value'.
saad awan (5 months ago)
Because the central banks have left others incapable of buying the metals and those who have the ability to buy them are being baited to go to cryptos so the population puts all its eggs in the world wide web and the oppressive slavery reaches another level when the communication networks and the satellites and the underground and oceanic communication cables don't belong to Mr. Satoshi a.k.a CIA
Jason Parthum (5 months ago)
If gold's value is intrinsic, then why are you citing only *some* families as 'evidence'? o.O
Tanner Gray (5 months ago)
It's ridiculous that Peter won't at least acknowledge Bitcoin should serve a small minority role in a balanced portfolio. This is what turns him from Peter Schiff to Peter Shill.
Tanner Gray (5 months ago)
Peter: "Don't trust third parties like government to safeguard the currency, trust me to hold your gold for you"
Adrian Segura (5 months ago)
im just trying to help you into waking up wtf is going on . nobody knows because they are blinded by the hype . like you . but its ok you can get out now tanner . anyways have a good one thanks for letting me educate you .
Adrian Segura (5 months ago)
you arent going to wait that long ... feb 2020 bye bye cryptos . you got one year and a half to play around with digital illusion of wealth and take that risk . remember they can track and tax even as of right now . so becareful of what you do .
Tanner Gray (5 months ago)
Adrian Segura I made a note for 5 years from today to check back on this comment feed
Adrian Segura (5 months ago)
like i said man , once people know of this senate bill and congress comes public with this senate bill bye bye crypto's . not just bitcoin all crypto's . everyone will take their money out because no one will want to take that risk of being consider a money launder or a terrorist found group . good luck man tanner i hope you can keep making millions on your digital illusion of wealth HAHAHA
Adrian Segura (5 months ago)
haha just like erik said bitcoin can get regulated much easier than gold . even a bitcoin fanatic said so haha . bitcoin "dont give a fuck about rules " hahahaha ok money launder . you are a fucking fool if you think you can go up agents gov hahaha
ali lee (5 months ago)
Please keep Erik in the spotlight. This is the kind of speaker we need!
Martin Brock (4 months ago)
Who is We?
Naomi Brockwell (5 months ago)
Exactly! Great speeches :)
Qryptonaut (5 months ago)
If bitcoin become a successful currency why the hell someone want to "cashout''? Peter obviously lack imagination, in future people use and kept bitcoin. they no longer have to change it into fiat.
Naomi Brockwell (5 months ago)
haha I have so many friends who don't even use govt fiat anymore :)
Adrian Segura (5 months ago)
bitcoin another lost debate . idk how these idiots can compare digital with physical . remember you need silver to keep blockchain thriving . oh , bitcoin community look out for Feb 2020 #1241 bill congress has for cryptos haha (money laundering )
Let ́s Fix It (5 months ago)
Great vid bad audio
M1ke22 (5 months ago)
Good debate. Thanks Peter and Erik. Both make convincing arguments
Naomi Brockwell (5 months ago)
Thanks for watching!
saad awan (5 months ago)
They talk about the ability to transfer the bitcoin to any part of the world...if the gov. simply switches off the internet you woudn't even have it to be transferred........Your computer gets tracked ffrom one room in pentagon and if you rebel against gov. all your wealth is locked in cyber for ever...vs Gold where gov. needs to go to every home to find it and confiscate...who you kidding here....the teenagers wanna be millionairs????????
Naomi Brockwell (5 months ago)
Well said, @Freedom Lovin :)
saad awan (5 months ago)
we shall have gold and silver to transact goods and services.... would not be sitting in front of a blank screen
Freedom Lovin' (5 months ago)
If the gov switches the internet off, you won't be accessing your fiat either, and we'll all have many much bigger problems than losing crypto.
saad awan (5 months ago)
The crypto market is as free-market as much this debate was free and deregulated....Peter has been here before...guess who gets the last laugh
saad awan (5 months ago)
If libertarion were thinking outside of mainstream propagated mentality through perceived free social media they would not all be caught in the same crypto-net
saad awan (5 months ago)
Take out the electric grid...where shall the bitcoin be??????????? Understand the intrinsic tangible from dreamy virtual garbage....
saad awan (5 months ago)
Naomi I dont know why liberals cannot think freely...why you dont realise the limitations of crypto and defend it by coming up with the limitations of fiat............anyone who is against the crypto does not necessarily support fiat.................its not just the central grid.....its the gov. controlled communication networks that can kick you out along with all your cyber money at any time..... fiat is bad....very bad....crypto is worse if not equally bad..... eventually when crypto is adapted. it is the death of freedom loving people to be trapped in the cyber space with their wealth controlled by the communication networks held by multinational giants and freedom curbing gov...... Gold price can be manipulated but cannot be made zero..... getting gold from all population and hence robbing them is difficult.....Crypto is a perfect tool to rob and trap all at once at the click of a button ............Gold didn't allow so..... look it is difficult for you to imagine but in India and Indonesia silver is being used as tender....Love Freedom and don't allow all human kind to welcome financial slavery by putting all their wealth in crypto....
Naomi Brockwell (5 months ago)
Well I don't keep my dollar bills in my mattress, so if the grid goes out then banks and ATMs will also be screwed...
Jake Leggett (5 months ago)
What is invented; not true (made-up) virus are you talking about?
saad awan (5 months ago)
I am not looking for a credibility certificate, and you are wise enough to make your decisions without relying on anyone's credibility..................................... Internet is a good medium of communication certainly when you may have a healthy debate.......the old form of post office communication was not bad either .... In the times of physical mail delivery system if I was told that invisible Satoshi had created something in post office where I could put all my money in a locker which I could use only when the pony was standing outside my door then using that tool shall mean relying on the pony at the express for my financial future............. Keep your money with you the donkey is gonna run away.......The gov. tried but failed and are still failing to rob gold of all its value.....cryptos are easier to rob.....y ou are invested in cryptos so good for you.... in near future you may get paid well since more catch is required through increase in the price of cryptos serving as a bait.......... Regards,
Jason Parthum (5 months ago)
If you want to appear even the slightest bit credible, you might want to refrain from using what is, by-far, the most technologically advanced electrically powered achievement in human history (the internet) to proclaim how horrible technology and electricity are. From now on will you please correspond by -Pony Express- <edit: They use horseshoes, which are obviously CIA controlled> *carrier pigeons (that have not been subjected to man-made Carbon emissions, obviously)?
Andy Raman (5 months ago)
Anyone got korean love ad hynix
russell UK (5 months ago)
I love Bitcoin and hope that it succeeds but WTF? - this was the most biased debate set up I have ever seen. Peter Schiff makes some valid points but he is being ridiculed by both a biased audience and moderator. Come on grow up - if you want Bitcoin to succeed and I do hope it does you have to be able to look at both sides of the argument and come up with logical and reasonable argument. Watching the comments and listening to the audience is like watching a bunch of kids that cant get their own way
russell UK (4 months ago)
If you are going to have a debate then yes you should screen the audience. It should be 50/50. I have been involved in Bitcoin for years and love the technology associated with it. However like any discussion you can't ridicule valid argument. Bitcoin does have a lot of problems and I wish the devoted fans (so to speak) would acknowledge this more. Listening to Peter talk is just like whenever Donald Trump says anything - it is laughed at and ridiculed for the sake of it without there always being a reason. Now I am not saying that I am either a fan of Peter's or Donald but sometimes I get sick of mob rule trying to force others in what to think
Naomi Brockwell (5 months ago)
"Biased" - Should we have screened attendees for their opinions before allowing them into the debate to make sure the audience was balanced? It's a libertarian debate series, so naturally most people there would like bitcoin. I think Erik did a great job at coming up with a reasonable and logical argument, even if the audience members were having fun with their responses. Peter put up a great effort regardless, I think both men put on a great debate and were tremendous sports about it. We're grateful they came!
saad awan (5 months ago)
It is mind-control to rob people of their precious metals and to eventually draw them into crypto whereby they can be booted out like a virus from virtual paying network by money-masters(now crypto-moneymasters)...and if the digital currency reaches full penetration the true libertarian shall even not be able to get his coffee from centralized-controlled money from which he is banned to log-on...who controls internet................who????????? blockchain or governments????????????????
Roger 9000 (5 months ago)
Great debate!! Awesome question too Naomi 👏👏👏! Did they make the bet ?? 😂
Naomi Brockwell (5 months ago)
Thanks, Roger!! They didn't make the bet, but I'll follow up with both :)
Jamos Riki (5 months ago)
Peter has some very good points but cannot see the paradigm shift coming directly toward him..
Naomi Brockwell (5 months ago)
agreed
Adrian Segura (5 months ago)
yea the senate bill 1241 that will consider cryptos as mpney laundering ,terrorist funding. i dont think the crypto community knows whats going ther way hahahah
Jamos Riki (5 months ago)
Maciano Van der Laan if you think that then I'm 100% certain you are not thinking clearly.
nilskp (5 months ago)
It's called Motivated Reasoning.
Maciano Van der Laan (5 months ago)
Jamos Riki no he has not. all his points have been proven wrong. for years.
brennanhm (5 months ago)
Bitcoin was released in January of 2009, just months after the climax of the financial crisis brought on by decades of unsustainable debt accumulation. I can't help but think that God planted the idea of Bitcoin in Satoshi Nakamoto's mind to save humanity from the disaster of government issued fiat currency. We've had nine years to improve upon Satoshi's technology, while central banks around the world continue to prop up a teetering massive house of cards. May the transition to crypto from fiat be as peaceful as possible.
Naomi Brockwell (5 months ago)
Bitcoin was absolutely created to save humanity from the disaster of govt issued fiat
Kylan Hurt (5 months ago)
Couldn't get a real mic audio feed, really?
Naomi Brockwell (5 months ago)
no
Very good debate, educational on the bouth sides.. I just wonder why always comparing to gold? There is some very expensive other metals like platina, or stones like emerald or diamonds... Ppl can "mine" bouth of them... And accept them as payments... But you have to " carry" it or some body can steel it ... And not because of your stupidity... Btc can be lost only because stupidity.. Thats why you should b smart enought to know how to keep it that no one can steel it... And also there could not be a replication of the btc No any other "coin " Because there is allready enought ppl decided that its have value... Also u cannot harm btc / the btc block chain But you can harm thees or that way any of other crypto curences or gold, silver, dimonds
Crypto Chat (5 months ago)
cuz peter is a gold bug
KurtleTheTurtle (5 months ago)
Ugh this camera angle and audio :l makes me want to not even watch the video....
MrHarrilasagna (5 months ago)
Indeed it is. Great debate. Thanks Naomi!
Naomi Brockwell (5 months ago)
Thanks for watching!
Litecoin Pat (5 months ago)
Love Schiff, but Eric won. Made stronger points. I do think a gold/silver backed crypto would be the best though. I’m sure someone is working on this.
Naomi Brockwell (5 months ago)
Gold backed digital currency existed before bitcoin, but they were shut down by govt
Peter Schiff (5 months ago)
Well if that is true how were payments made when gold was money? You don't think people bought real estate under when we were on the gold standard. You don't think the Romans made any sizable purchases.
BullShark (5 months ago)
The Royal Mint are working on it (RMG) but I doubt it will replace Bitcoin.
SPERRFEUER84 (5 months ago)
thanks buddy i have a ton of luck since many years in crypto :) dont be salty you can love gold and crypto.
Jason Parthum (5 months ago)
Yes Pat, the physical bill is *not* the currency unit. That's why some have "One Dollar" printed on them while others have "One Hundred Dollars" printed on them.
John Ioannou (5 months ago)
Excellent discussion. I hope to see more of these in the future, Naomi.
Naomi Brockwell (5 months ago)
That's the plan! :)
Karma Drone (5 months ago)
Mad props to Peter for using LAMBO, FUD, and FOMO :P
Naomi Brockwell (5 months ago)
lol I was pretty impressed too 😂
Andrew Cardin (5 months ago)
Thank you for recording this. Excellent debate. Really makes me question my position and point of view.
Naomi Brockwell (5 months ago)
Thanks for watching, glad it was helpful!
Dan O'Neill (5 months ago)
I'm not for bitcoin .... I am for FREEDOM to use bitcoin
Naomi Brockwell (5 months ago)
Freedom is great :)
matt justin (5 months ago)
thanks for sharing
Naomi Brockwell (5 months ago)
Thanks for watching!
flik221 (5 months ago)
Bitcoin is the future.
Wayne Moore (4 months ago)
Adrian Segura but monero can’t
Adrian Segura (5 months ago)
2ND layer solution haha come on bro
flik221 (5 months ago)
Adrian Segura do you even 2nd layer solution bro?
Adrian Segura (5 months ago)
didnt you even listen to the video ?? or are you another idiot that just comments shit without hearing the speakers .
flik221 (5 months ago)
Adrian Segura do you even lightning network bro
neurotraveller (5 months ago)
Why does the bitcoin community always feel the need to get Peters approval? I could care less.
Naomi Brockwell (5 months ago)
I think that's a misconception, the media portrays bitcoin as a gold coin because it anchors the understanding of what it is
Dan O'Neill (5 months ago)
The same reason they always show bitcoin AS GOLD LOOKING COINS ..... they are desperate for legitimacy & try to cling to someone with legitimacy or fake people out that it is gold coins ( also real value ) .
Dan O'Neill (5 months ago)
Many bitcoin fans forget that silver is for strippers & a cup of coffee ........ gold is for wealth preservation . 10 million weddings / yr in India , when you get this Bride to use bitcoin in her wedding , bitcoin may have a chance . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZpevhsLv4s
Naomi Brockwell (5 months ago)
Bitcoin definitely already has more than a chance ;)
Mork (5 months ago)
Hi Naomi, i don't use Steem as its a pain for me to use every tech communication. I feel many would love to see more content from you on Youtube. Cheers like your work.
Naomi Brockwell (5 months ago)
Thanks for watching! Subscribe here, I've started putting out a few videos a week :)
logans run (5 months ago)
Thx, subbed... Eric will piss this, cant wait to watch.
Naomi Brockwell (5 months ago)
Thanks so much :)
Dan O'Neill (5 months ago)
This should be good THANKS!!! I don't know Erik .. Likely on Peters side !
Dan O'Neill (5 months ago)
So did I , Thanks !! Not sure if any minds were changed ?? I thought Peter did very well .. 2 to 1 .. HA! I don't think he cares , make it 3 to 1 , to make it fair next time !!
Naomi Brockwell (5 months ago)
I thought the debate was great :)
Lambo Llama (5 months ago)
So glad to have an opportunity to interact in chat. Brilliant debate. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Thanks Naomi for all you do for Bitcoin, Freedom, and Crypto. Also thanks for not wearing the blue dress. 😂
Naomi Brockwell (5 months ago)
goodness that blue dress! Glad you enjoyed the debate :)

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